ridiculouslylongconvo
Thought I might share a conversation I had. You might want to brew a pot of coffee before sitting down to read this, it's kind of long. It covers socialist theory, human galactic parasitism, and theoretical physics... and not it's not necessarily all related. So seriously, coffee.
Update: Responses from various people in the comments section, open up and read it. DO IT.
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[01:45:57] Johann: Well I'm sure it'll improve in later years
[01:46:00] Justin: Live diligently for a few days, and see what kind of productive output you can harness.
[01:46:09] Johann: first and second year PSci have not taught me anything
[01:46:22] Johann: I spent days writing out political diatribes when I was home
[01:46:33] Justin: lol.
[01:46:39] Justin: Angry letters to the editor?
[01:47:05] Johann: nah
[01:47:08] Johann: my own journal
[01:47:21] Johann: and also prepping for my main body of work
[01:47:33] Johann: "The Manifesto", as was mentioned in my post.
[01:47:58] Justin: Indeed; and what's it going to be, Johann?
[01:48:13] Justin: I must say, I'm interested.
[01:48:17] Justin: Is it militant?
[01:48:19] Justin: Reactionary?
[01:48:23] Justin: Ideological?
[01:48:43] Johann: Ideological
[01:48:46] Johann: but also rational
[01:49:29] Johann: first section, the basic tenets of socialist thought, and its failings and successes to date
[01:50:50] Johann: third section, a breakdown of socialist ideological methodology to date.
[01:51:18] Johann: (i.e. theoretical implementations of socialist/communist theory, such as Marxism, European democratic socialism, etc.)
[01:51:43] Justin: And finally, your contribution?
[01:51:55] Johann: not yet.
[01:52:27] Johann: fourth section: theoretical implementations of worldwide socialism and the basic premises and failings of each
[01:54:35] Johann: and finally several sections on my own theory and (thus far, anyway) it's ideological failings as a perfect society expressions of hope of reaching the (thus far unattainable) Marxist 'end of political history'.
[01:55:09] Johann: *insert and between society and expressions
[01:55:22] Justin: Forgive me, Johann, but it sounds tediously ideological; I prefer a world divided.
[01:55:31] Johann: I know.
[01:55:57] Johann: Trust me, thus my expressions of it, even if achieved, as imperfect.
[01:56:03] Justin: A value in different systems, and the inherent diversity of human expression, social and individual.
[01:56:10] Justin: Ahh.
[01:56:24] Justin: Good; as long as you're not prophesying it as a Marxiian messiah.
[01:56:30] Johann: nah.
[01:56:43] Johann: just a better system than the current one existant.
[01:57:07] Johann: I don't even know if I'll have to really write it. Things are moving along with just subtle pushes here and there from various people
[01:57:18] Justin: That much is true; take the best from all we know, and socialism has done many wonderful things, like unionism, health care, welfare.
[01:57:28] Justin: Subsidized...everything.
[01:57:31] Justin: Especially education.
[01:57:36] Justin: Poor american bastards.
[01:57:39] Johann: Yeah
[01:57:44] Johann: well the failing of marxism
[01:57:46] Johann: globally
[01:57:52] Johann: falls in several key areas
[01:58:11] Johann: one: the non-existant actual polarization of rich and poor
[01:58:51] Johann: two: the failure to account for developing nations not even through with their capitalist phase, if one is to take the Marxist idea of capitalism as the vehicle of Marxism
[01:59:08] Justin: lol. I like one. I never bought class consciousness.
[01:59:26] Justin: Second is also very true.
[01:59:40] Justin: Marx discounted them completely.
[01:59:45] Johann: yeah.
[01:59:53] Johann: He thought of Germany and Germany only
[01:59:55] Justin: Only sold his idea to the Russians after it failed to catch everywhere else.
[02:00:05] Johann: And yeah
[02:00:15] Johann: the Russians waited for people to join them in the great revolution
[02:00:16] Johann: hahahaha
[02:00:19] Johann: I still laugh about it.
[02:00:43] Justin: Like early Christians thinking hte end is night.
[02:00:47] Johann: yeah.
[02:01:11] Johann: three: the expectation of sudden change and the failure to account for cultural conservative inertia.
[02:01:24] Johann: You can't kill EVERYONE who doesn't think the same way as you do.
[02:02:33] Johann: and in some places, i.e. China:
The failure to account for pre-existant cultural, not political, hierarchies
[02:03:18] Justin: lol. Real trick is not killing anyone who doesn't think as you do, but in only killing those who'll TRY TO PREVENT you from thinking the way that you do.
[02:03:32] Justin: Otherwise, you'll always be in a sinking boat.
[02:03:38] Justin: Desperately bailing water.
[02:03:42] Johann: Like those damned Cylons!
[02:03:44] Johann: KILL THEM ALL!
[02:04:15] Justin: lol. The Cylons are their own ideological pawns.
[02:04:20] Johann: The prime failure of Maoism (there are many) was that it retained the whole 'respect for elders' that is so prevalent in Chinese culture, immediately building a class-structure
[02:04:28] Justin: They serve the idea, act as its instruments.
[02:04:31] Johann: I love BSG, it's deep. Bloody deep.
[02:04:32] Johann: Yeah.
[02:05:16] Johann: probably the most appealing sci-fi show right now. Over any of the new Treks for sure, and definately over stuff like Stargate and crap.
[02:05:18] Justin: So do I; I'm always pleasantly surprised by each new shade of grey their pallet provides.
[02:05:23] Justin: True.
[02:05:32] Justin: I'm trek forever, and I must say, it's better.
[02:05:37] Johann: Yeah
[02:05:45] Johann: though the original Treks are still watchworthy
[02:06:01] Johann: I'm not a trekkie and I'll still watch them.
[02:06:10] Johann: I won't watch Voyager much though
[02:06:15] Johann: except for Seven of Nine.
[02:06:52] Justin: TNG.
[02:06:54] Johann: Though if you're talking disturbingly hot sci-fi characters Number Six, hands down.
[02:06:55] Justin: So utopian.
[02:06:59] Justin: Check that socialist utopia.
[02:07:04] Johann: hahah damn straight.
[02:07:05] Johann: =)
[02:07:09] Justin: No money, replicators, unending material wealth.
[02:07:16] Justin: Pure equality.
[02:07:22] Johann: Yeah. Replicators would solve ALL our problems
[02:07:28] Justin: Only in DS9 did they expose the insidiousness of such equality.
[02:07:29] Johann: too bad it's really bad physics.
[02:07:39] Justin: How it's too easy, destroys something in the man.
[02:07:47] Justin: Matter conversion.
[02:07:58] Johann: Matter conversion has to come from somewhere
[02:08:21] Johann: Eventually you'll be throwing off entire planetary orbits just to feed your populace and give them free shit.
[02:08:31] Justin: lol.
[02:08:37] Justin: Now that's something I'd never thought ot.
[02:08:51] Justin: Idea is that most of it comes from waste.
[02:09:05] Justin: Eventually it woudl stabilize, unless people were TOO extravagant.
[02:09:08] Johann: not possible. Human population rises exponentially
[02:09:14] Justin: But I think they'd loose the drive for extravagance.
[02:09:23] Justin: Stop replicating fifty stoy solid gold houses.
[02:09:29] Justin: lol.
[02:09:50] Johann: I mean, unless you put birth rate control laws
[02:09:54] Johann: in which case it isn't really equal
[02:10:01] Johann: if one family can have a kid and one can't.
[02:10:15] Johann: I mean, you'd eventually literally implode stars
[02:10:47] Justin: True.
[02:10:50] Johann: You'd have nebula after nebula
[02:10:52] Johann: I mean it could work
[02:10:54] Justin: Someone should work out how that system might work.
[02:10:57] Johann: as a migratory population
[02:10:59] Justin: Now that woudl be a fun read.
[02:11:09] Johann: I was thinking of writing a novel
[02:11:11] Justin: Yeah, constantly moving outward like a fucking plague.
[02:11:19] Johann: about humans doing exactly that.
[02:11:50] Johann: It's like BSG, except the only thing they're running from is the nebulas they leave behind
[02:12:54] Johann: Imagine the sun going red-giant then white-dwarf
[02:13:00] Johann: in several centuries
[02:13:04] Johann: I mean
[02:13:24] Johann: right now the theory I think is that most planetary orbits but the first two or three (we're third, duh)
[02:13:35] Johann: would expand faster than the sun's expansion
[02:13:49] Johann: but compress that time frame
[02:14:06] Johann: God
[02:14:10] Johann: that would be such a cool read
[02:14:23] Justin: Well, you know what a Dyson sphere is.
[02:14:26] Johann: yeah
[02:14:33] Justin: Teh supposedly maximal way to harness a solar system's energy?
[02:14:38] Justin: Build bunch of those.
[02:14:56] Justin: Then destroy galaxies to build a shell around a supercluster.
[02:15:23] Johann: I suppose you could do it with a replicator
[02:15:30] Johann: but the problem I would see then
[02:15:34] Johann: is the process of building one
[02:15:48] Johann: would you use up the mass availible to you
[02:15:58] Johann: before you could even build one around the thing?
[02:16:25] Johann: and isn't a Dyson shell theoretically impossible anyway?
[02:16:56] Justin: Well, you'd have to probably zap all the matter in a zillion lightyear radius to build it.
[02:17:05] Johann: I suppose a shell isn't theoretically impossible, but still...
[02:17:14] Johann: still... in the end
[02:17:32] Johann: you would be reaching farther and farther out for raw material to keep the population of your sphere fed
[02:17:35] Johann: and happy
[02:18:20] Johann: as well as for more superstructures to house your expanding population.
[02:18:47] Johann: technically the civilization would HAVE to collapse, as it created an ever expanding area of empty space
[02:19:12] Justin: True.
[02:19:23] Justin: Eventually, it would just be so far to get matter, that it would die.
[02:19:32] Johann: exactly
[02:19:52] Johann: I mean, even a 'hyperspace' drive must, at some level, destroy matter to get the neccessary energy
[02:20:00] Johann: you would be killing yourself off slowly.
[02:20:55] Justin: Wow, how nihilistic an parasitic our scifiesque future has become.
[02:21:13] Johann: I think humans are naturally, on a stellar level, doomed to return to our roots of nomadism if we are to survive. I hate to sound like the Matrix, but yeah, we are parasitic.
[02:21:33] Johann: I am so posting this convo on my blog.
[02:22:12] Justin: WEll, it's how we opperate.
[02:22:17] Johann: Yeah.
[02:22:20] Justin: Fuck Suzukki, we come, see, conquer, and move on.
[02:22:26] Justin: No sacred balance for man.
[02:22:32] Justin: He's too greedy, ambitious.
[02:22:37] Johann: Well
[02:22:41] Johann: sacred balance socially, yes.
[02:22:43] Johann: Naturally
[02:22:49] Johann: it ain't fucking happening.
[02:23:08] Johann: Nature is going to have to fuck itself and move aside for us.
[02:23:33] Johann: But I am going to be conservationist here on Earth as long as I can, because fuck it, we can't kill off THIS planet until we can successfully move the fuck OFF of it.
[02:24:02] Justin: lol.
[02:24:06] Justin: That's the turth.
[02:24:37] Johann: It's too bad really.
[02:25:25] Justin: It is.
[02:25:42] Justin: But conservatism, the desire to preserve or continue the old, never seems to last long.
[02:25:53] Johann: yeah.
[02:26:00] Justin: It's a drag on progress, for good and ill, but never a true impediment.
[02:26:22] Johann: http://www.nada.kth.se/~asa/dysonFAQ.html#STRENGTH
[02:26:25] Johann: Read this if you have the time
[02:26:31] Johann: it's the Physics of a Dyson Sphere
[02:26:53] Johann: Man...
[02:26:56] Johann: wow
[02:27:17] Johann: what if we do get trapped in Dyson Sphere mode and do eat out a chunk of the universe?
[02:27:48] Johann: assuming the faster-than-light travel relies on the gravitic/magnetic associations between stellar structures
[02:27:48] Justin: Looks like there's enough mass for a sphere in the inner system alone
[02:27:53] Justin: (including the belt I assume)
[02:27:54] Johann: WE WOULD BE FUCKED.
[02:28:34] Johann: Yeah there seems to be
[02:28:37] Johann: but as I said
[02:28:49] Johann: more mass would be required than for the structure alone
[02:28:53] Johann: you'd need everything else
[02:29:03] Johann: which increases exponentially
[02:29:42] Johann: I mean, it's a lesson we're still not learning here on earth, our growth rate and consumption is greater than the exponential regeneration of nature.
[02:29:51] Justin: So we'll make like Niven and do the ringworld thing.
[02:30:02] Justin: A more physically acceptable version,
[02:30:24] Justin: Imagine it: a world a million times bigger than ours all around, with oceans the size of dozens of worlds.
[02:30:31] Justin: Wonder how you'd set up an ecology on that.
[02:30:38] Johann: Yeah
[02:30:40] Johann: that would be intense
[02:30:49] Johann: We'd also need a lot of mass
[02:30:56] Johann: but Jupiter's up for it I suppose.
[02:31:26] Johann: we'd still need to migrate eventually, if the human race survives long enough
[02:31:38] Johann: the sun would naturally go red giant eventually
[02:31:55] Johann: millions of years
[02:32:04] Johann: so not too worried
[02:32:07] Johann: but a thought.
[02:32:16] Justin: Beh; we'll evolve into the Q by then.
[02:32:24] Johann: hehehe
[02:32:43] Johann: Alright
[02:32:45] Johann: posting this on the blog
[02:32:47] Johann: hold on.
Comments
This is a response by David Gootman.
Seriously now, he's an engineer... and we get around to discussing the difficulties in matter/anti-matter associations... which eventually leads to discussions on absolute zero. It really elaborates on some other points that I never touched on with Justin about the impossibility of 1:1 recycling (laws of thermodynamics) and dispels the myth of energy to matter conversions.
I think it does, anyway.
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[03:00:43] Johann: finish reading?
[03:00:45] Johann: hahahaha
[03:03:11] Dave Gootman: What a load of crap, about the Dyson shell.
[03:03:48] Johann: hahaha
[03:03:54] Johann: what do you mean?
[03:04:01] Dave Gootman: I was hoping you'd ask.
[03:04:40] Dave Gootman: By the time a civilization is capable of building a Dyson sphere, they damn well fucking better have better sources of energy than solar energy from the sun.
[03:04:51] Johann: you're missing the point
[03:05:02] Johann: the point is: Human beings cannot be static
[03:05:09] Johann: even if we could recycle everything we used
[03:05:29] Johann: we still use more than that, we're an exponentially growing expanding species
[03:06:06] Dave Gootman: Never had a doubt in my mind. I just take it as such a fact that I don't even bother mentioning it.
[03:06:20] Johann: of course
[03:06:29] Johann: but it's something to really think about and not just leave in the background
[03:06:39] Johann: cause eventually this planet is gonna get trashed by us
[03:07:07] Johann: no matter how much recycling and conservation will slow the process
[03:07:42] Johann: question is: Where do we move? Because the question of "whether or not we should move" is the same as asking "should we continue living as a species?"
[03:07:58] Johann: it's either that or let people die till the equation balances.
[03:08:19] Dave Gootman: Its kinda hard for me to thing seriously about it. Its gonna happens so long past any of our lifetimes, and I don't even have plans for tomorrow.
[03:08:26] Johann: Ahh
[03:08:28] Johann: true
[03:08:33] Johann: lots of people think that way
[03:08:36] Johann: but personally
[03:08:55] Johann: I don't want to contribute to the human race dying out.
[03:10:44] Dave Gootman: Don't forget to recycle, then. I'll be damned if nobody events Artificial Nature when we really need it.
[03:11:04] Johann: lol
[03:11:27] Johann: artificial machines that do everything nature does?
[03:11:27] Dave Gootman: Genetic engineering is the way to go.
[03:11:34] Dave Gootman: Or that.
[03:11:42] Johann: it's a possibility
[03:11:52] Johann: you'd still continually need more and more of them
[03:11:58] Johann: then the question becomes one of population pressure
[03:12:40] Dave Gootman: That'd be pretty cool. Speed up growth rate of trees and the such, increase rate of oxygen-production....
[03:12:59] Johann: still, where would you put the people?
[03:13:10] Dave Gootman: We're already fucking around with cows to "increase they're efficiency", eh?
[03:13:28] Dave Gootman: In sky-scrapers that go to the moon.
[03:13:50] Johann: theoretically possible, practically insane.
[03:14:03] Dave Gootman: Like all other sci-fi ideas...
[03:14:05] Johann: yeah.
[03:14:16] Johann: well, not entirely
[03:14:28] Johann: planetary colonization is the least practically insane
[03:14:41] Dave Gootman: We can just keep on piling up floor on buildings until... ever...
[03:14:45] Dave Gootman: floors.
[03:14:57] Johann: because if you can engineer plants already, you can create an existing ecosystems
[03:15:26] Johann: and, you can't do what you're suggesting. Structural stress on lower, less 'new' levels would collapse the whole thing
[03:15:31] Johann: I thought you were an engineer.
[03:15:32] Johann: =)
[03:15:50] Dave Gootman: You can renovate and replace old materials.
[03:15:57] Dave Gootman: As you come up with new ones.
[03:15:58] Johann: besides which, where would you get the mass to keep building upwards?
[03:17:07] Dave Gootman: Ha! Thats the ingenius part! Eventually, the floors of adjacent buildings would merge and so you only have to worry about the edges that are going to be miles apart. Downtown TO would become the first floor or a huge mega-building.
[03:17:28] Dave Gootman: ...of a....
[03:17:43] Johann: *laughs*
[03:19:08] Dave Gootman: 1st floor - shipping/receiving
2nd floor - Chindatown
3rd floor - Greektown
4th floor - ... you get the idea.
[03:19:11] Johann: I still am not seeing a solution to the raw material problem
[03:19:27] Johann: though I'm considering the idea
[03:19:28] Dave Gootman: Engineer them from scratch.
[03:19:33] Johann: from where?
[03:19:38] Dave Gootman: Energy to matter conversion.
[03:19:47] Johann: Energy to matter conversion?
[03:19:54] Dave Gootman: M=root(E/c)
[03:20:01] Dave Gootman: Crap, thats wrong.
[03:20:06] Dave Gootman: I dunno.
[03:20:08] Johann: hahahaha
[03:21:00] Dave Gootman: M = E / c^2 . Thats better.
So take some pure energy and divide it by the square of the speed of light....
[03:21:41] Dave Gootman: If they can teleport a photon (**shock**) surely they can do that too.
[03:22:09] Johann: haha yeah I still don't know how they detected a particular photon teleporting from one place to another
[03:22:11] Johann: lmao.
[03:22:25] Dave Gootman: "Look!! That light moved!!"
"No!!! It was TELEPORTED!!!!!"
[03:22:49] Johann: it goes against the basic precepts of the conservation of matter though.
[03:22:59] Johann: and conservation of energy
[03:23:08] Dave Gootman: What? Teleportation?
[03:23:24] Johann: no
[03:23:29] Johann: energy to matter conversion
[03:23:34] Johann: Trying to do the math in my head
[03:24:03] Dave Gootman: Bah... Its all just a theory.
[03:24:23] Dave Gootman: The only reason its impossible is because they didn't do it yet.
[03:24:56] Johann: no, it's simply impossible and proven so by modern science, because out of energy you create matter/anti-matter pairs
[03:25:07] Johann: anti-matter/matter combines to form energy
[03:25:13] Johann: thus balancing the equation
[03:26:31] Dave Gootman: Now, what if you make anti-anti-matter to cancel out with the anti-matter!!! Ha!!!
Matter + anti-matter + anti-anti-matter = matter!
Oh, crap, or anti-anti-matter.
[03:26:57] Johann: yeah.
[03:27:07] Johann: anti-anti-matter = matter anyway
[03:27:22] Johann: so what you're doing is basically destroying the same amount of matter
[03:27:27] Johann: that you got elsewhere
[03:27:32] Johann: equation still balances.
[03:27:47] Johann: Man I thought YOU were the Engineer, I'm supposed to be the arts stupid!
[03:29:00] Dave Gootman: What are you talking about??? If you have the anti-anti-matter cancel out with the anti-matter then you get matter from energy.
[03:29:28] Johann: there's no such thing as anti-anti-matter, the anti- of anti-matter is matter!
[03:29:33] Dave Gootman: Or what if you steal matter from parallel universes, for example?
[03:30:22] Dave Gootman: Or if you can't find those, you can always go to the perpendicular universes. But thouse would probably be weird.
[03:30:25] Johann: so matter + matter + anti-matter = unbalanced equation, but only because one part of matter has anti-matter there that's already bonded with another matter for energy
[03:31:01] Johann: = matter + matter + anti-matter + anti-matter = energy, back to square 1.
[03:31:21] Johann: even if you stole matter from a parallel universe you'd have to use energy to do so
[03:31:38] Dave Gootman: What if you do it at 0K?
[03:32:31] Johann: that's a possibility, but 0K is impossible, it's a limit function
[03:32:53] Johann: absolute zero is a limit, not a reality
[03:33:02] Dave Gootman: And you can't make matter out of energy if all you're doing is sitting around and balancing equations.
[03:33:08] Johann: lmao
[03:33:15] Johann: I'm just saying
[03:33:43] Johann: it's not even theoretically possible
[03:33:49] Johann: what makes you think we'll be doing it any time soon?
[03:34:35] Dave Gootman: Never said any time soon. Like a student procrastinating before an exam, we'll figure it out either right before or soon after the end of the world.
[03:35:29] Johann: easier to move to Mars.
[03:35:29] Johann: =)
[03:35:52] Dave Gootman: Well, that comes complete with its own set of issues.
[03:36:23] Johann: But no theoretically impossible physics.
[03:36:27] Johann: just... lots of money.
[03:36:39] Dave Gootman: Impossibility is just a temporary state.
[03:36:52] Johann: I dunno man
[03:36:58] Johann: Most things I'd say yes.
[03:37:03] Johann: 0 Kelvin isn't one of them.
[03:37:35] Johann: cause if it's Lim (inf) approaching 0, you're not getting to 0
[03:37:55] Dave Gootman: I don't trust theory. How can we agree with something like the Theory of Relativity if Einsterin then says "Oh, btw, light doesn't have to obey it, buts its special."
[03:38:25] Dave Gootman: A limit can converge to a proper value.
[03:39:10] Johann: yeah, but absolute zero...
[03:39:16] Johann: not really a proper value.
[03:39:38] Dave Gootman: Why not? 0 is very proper. Its not even imaginary or complex.
[03:40:15] Johann: but a limit in practise never reaches the value it approaches
[03:40:38] Johann: absolute 0 isn't .000 inf 1, it's 0.
[03:40:56] Dave Gootman: What if you cool something to 1K and then put another couple of fans and air-conditioners up to it?
[03:41:16] Dave Gootman: And whats there to say there is no -1K? Only theory.
[03:41:35] Johann: what would -1 K be?
[03:41:47] Johann: I mean 0 K is static motion
[03:41:57] Johann: as in... absence of motion
[03:42:02] Johann: -1 would be what?
[03:42:17] Dave Gootman: Crazy-super-cold???
[03:42:23] Dave Gootman: I don't know.
[03:42:26] Johann: lmao.
[03:42:41] Dave Gootman: It'd be 1 degree celcius colder than 0K.
[03:42:49] Johann: lol
[03:42:57] Johann: but I mean on an atomic level.
[03:43:34] Dave Gootman: A temperature at which an atom is not only stationary but also too scared to start moving again.
[03:44:17] Dave Gootman: I'll let you know when I have a sample of -1K material under a microscope.
[03:44:31] Johann: haha, but that's 0 K. Because if you *break* the limit, I suppose it can't go back.
[03:44:55] Johann: cause at 0 K there would be no energy to remobilize it.
[03:45:14] Dave Gootman: Holy crap! You know what that means!? That'd probably mean the end of the world right there.
[03:45:16] Johann: 0 K would only be possible if you removed energy entirely from the universe.
[03:45:20] Johann: Exactly!
[03:45:28] Johann: that's what I was getting at
[03:45:33] Johann: it's theoretically impossible
[03:45:50] Johann: that or you just created the universe's worst super-weapon.
[03:46:42] Dave Gootman: That'd be pretty damn sweet. Cool 1 atom down to 0K and watch it suck the energy out of the whole universe.
[03:47:21] Johann: it defies all quantum physics, though
[03:47:55] Dave Gootman: Thats why they won't see it coming when I finally have it ready.
[03:48:03] Johann: lmao.
[03:48:10] Johann: I mean
[03:48:21] Johann: I'm no quantum physicist
[03:48:46] Johann: if I were I'd prolly be better than Stephen Hawking at it. (har har)
[03:49:38] Johann: but as far as I understand a confined particle (which is all we can really do to slow a particle down) still has a minimum quantum number of one and retains some kinesis
[03:50:57] Dave Gootman: Unless... Quantum theory is wrong. Which doesn't sound too unlikely given how messed up it is.
[03:51:07] Johann: lol
[03:51:45] Johann: in which case you still have the laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy (which would prevent you from ever removing all energy from the universe)
[03:54:40] Dave Gootman: Wait a second, why are we trying to remove all the energy from the universe? That won't help our species at all...
[03:55:16] Johann: I just explained that to Ana.
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[03:55:59] Johann: [03:52:11] Johann: Dave is trying to think of a way to reduce a particle to 0 Kelvin
[03:52:27] Johann: I'm telling him it's impossible
[03:52:33] Johann: in many sophisticated ways.
[03:53:22] Anastassia Trifonova: indeed its a bit of a bitch why is he trying this?
[03:53:44] Johann: to prove a point.
[03:53:45] Johann: in fact
[03:53:48] Johann: to trace the argument
[03:54:01] Johann: to attempt seperation of matter and anti-matter
[03:54:10] Johann: therefore converting energy into matter.
[03:56:13] Johann: [03:54:23] Johann: and therefore having limitless amounts of matter
[03:54:53] Johann: but since I pretty much told him you would have to remove all energy from the universe (which is impossible by conservation of energy) to reach absolute zero
[03:55:01] Johann: I think he just wants to do it to destroy the universe.
[03:55:02] Johann: =)
[03:55:27] Anastassia Trifonova: blah he is just trying to go against the law of thermodynamics
[03:55:39] Anastassia Trifonova: entropy shall increase every time you do something
[03:55:42] Johann: that's what I told him!
[03:57:24] Dave Gootman: You know what they say, laws are meant to be broken.
[03:57:40] Johann: lmao, I think some really aren't.
[03:57:48] Johann: Unless you mean to kill everyone off.
[03:57:49] Johann: =)
[03:58:19] Johann: alright I'm ending this convo here since we're getting nowhere and putting this on the blog too.
Posted by: Johann K | May 21, 2006 04:04 AM